E27 Your Sex Life Isn’t Broken… Your Timing Is

Ever tried to make a move on your spouse and realized you’re basically flirting with a sleep-deprived corpse? Yeah… welcome to the real problem most couples don’t talk about.

In this episode of Undressed Conversations, we break down one of the most overlooked killers of intimacy: bad timing. Not lack of desire, not attraction, not love… just two people completely missing each other’s window.

We get into the real story behind how opposite schedules, parenting, exhaustion, and unspoken expectations quietly wreck connection, and how we turned something stupid into years of frustration. Morning vs night, rejection vs exhaustion, pressure vs connection… it’s all in here.

And the fix? It’s embarrassingly simple. But most couples never do it.

If you’ve ever felt rejected, pressured, or just completely out of sync with your partner, this one’s going to hit.

Because a lot of marriages don’t have a sex problem.
 They’ve got a timing problem… and nobody’s willing to admit it.

⭐ About Undressed Conversations

We’re Mark and Tonya, high school sweethearts married for 30 years. After decades of trying to fit into roles that weren't ours, we finally dropped the masks and started telling the truth about marriage, intimacy, shame, healing, and what it actually takes to stay connected for life. Our goal is simple, to help couples build relationships that feel alive again.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

You ever try to make a sexy move on your spouse and realize halfway through that you're basically pitching passion to a corpse?

SPEAKER_00 0:07

That's because some of you wait until your partner is one blink of burrito away from the grave to suddenly becoming romantic.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

And then you act surprised when it doesn't go well.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

We shouldn't still be married, but somehow after 32 years, we're still together.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

We've survived alcoholism, betrayal, religion, losing ourselves, losing each other, and rebuilt a marriage that most said would never last.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

And somewhere along the way, Mark started coming with me to my underwear.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

Yeah, because if the marriage is healthy, the lingerie should be too.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

And that's how we knew our marriage was different.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

This podcast is for couples who want connection, honesty, and a marriage that feels alive again.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

And for anyone who wants the truth about love, about all the bullshit.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

This is Undressed Conversations.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Where we strip marriage down to what's real.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

This is Undressed Conversations. Before we get into the rest of this, what we want to do is remind you that this is the Saturday or the Thursday episode. If you're listening to this on podcasts, available everywhere, it's Thursday, 6 a.m. Or if you're watching this live on YouTube, it's Saturday, 6 a.m., which is our normal release schedule. We do have another episode that drops on Mondays, and part of that is available on podcast, and the other part lives on our paid site. If you want to get the best of everything, we suggest that you follow us. We certainly appreciate the follows. It definitely encourages us in everything you can do to support the channel. Drop your comments, tell us your stories, give us your feedback, whether we're doing the things we're doing right, the things we're not doing right, topics that you have that you want us to talk about, that's what this is about.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Let us know.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

We ask you to get engaged. Reach out, we don't mind. And if this speaks to you, share with your partner. It's a great way to help start a dialogue if you don't know how to have that conversation. And with all that said, let's get into it.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Stage one. One of us is just now waking up.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

What do you mean by just now waking up?

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Well, because usually when uh this happens, there's one partner that's like passed out, and there's one that's like woo, all sprung.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

So which one were you?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

I was typically so if we're talking about nighttime nookie.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

We're we're talking about whatever time, which were you the early morning?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

I was the early morning, you you were the night owl. And yeah, if you were coming on to me at night, I was like out.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

Yeah, you love to get up early, and part of the reason for that was is because why?

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Because I was sneaking out drinking coffee for 10 years.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

And you're sitting at home right now thinking, why is this lady sneaking out and drinking coffee? And that's because if you haven't heard, we used to be LDS, Mormon. We used to belong to the the church, however, you want to state that these days. And this was one of the things that you weren't allowed to do because it was not accepted in our religion. She would sneak out, get up extra early, so that she'd go to the coffee hut, get her coffee, and go to work.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Oh, and all my caffeinated self just wanted to get on you when I got back.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Got back from where?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Getting coffee.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

But you weren't even there, you were at work.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Oh, well, I mean, like in that, in the at that in the weekends I was, okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:32

Did you did the I I don't know. I don't know your coffee schedule because this was hidden for the case. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

That's not what the topic is today.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

So, what you would do is you would go to work early because it gave you time to stop by the coffee hut, sit there and enjoy your coffee before the work rush started.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

And so I didn't get to see you.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

No, no, I was gone. So you would stay up late.

SPEAKER_03 3:49

Super late.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Yeah, you would you would stay up late doing whatever you did.

SPEAKER_03 3:53

I was usually working on business things. Yeah. That was my quiet time. So I could work on really big projects. Like I remember building websites and doing all that stuff. Anytime I had a major project that we had to do, the nighttime was the time to do it because we had kids that were hmm ambitious.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Yes. So I would go to bed early because I would get up early. And you would go to bed late.

SPEAKER_03 4:17

And that started with the kids when they were even younger.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Way before this. Because I like to stay up. I was kind of a night owl, and I'd stay up, and so I had the night shift and even they were young. Yeah. So I would stay up until like one or two o'clock, and then anything after two o'clock was your responsibility all the way up until daytime, which we were both awake. So you'd go to bed early, I'd go to bed late. And it kind of it started with parenting.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

It did. Yeah, I think that's what got us started. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

So it was a good division of the skills then, but then what happened is is it really wrecked our time and our compatibility for intimacy, yeah, intimacy and connection.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Yeah. Well, yeah, because you know, you come into bed at 2 a.m. where I've already been sleeping for four hours. Be like, hey.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

So what time did you feel like you usually stop being useful? Like you were just checked out because I know for me, the minute I Superman onto the bed, it's it's done.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Like probably realistically, like midnight, 11, 12. Like 11 to 12.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

I would say it was earlier than that. I would say I had a hard time most nights, even after like 9 or 9.30. You would go to bed at like 8, 8. A lot of nights, and then you'd get up at 6. 5.30 or 6. 5.3 or 6. Yeah, and I was the opposite. So there wasn't a lot of time for connection.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

I was usually in my office.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

What time did you start to feel like fun and horny?

SPEAKER_03 5:51

So for me, it was like at the end of my workday. Like when I came into the bedroom and I was done working, I was done stressed out, being stressed out. I felt like I had gotten all the tasks accomplished that I needed to for the day. The kids are in bed, I didn't have to worry about any of that. And that's the time that I wanted to connect. Like sometimes I would sit in there and watch stuff.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Stuff.

SPEAKER_03 6:16

Not a lot, but it happened. I remember. I would I would venture into visual stimulation.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Did you ever were you able to rouse me or was I like out?

SPEAKER_03 6:31

Uh like in the kid phase. In the kid phase? I don't remember being able to get you to to wake up. Now that's different than one of the later phases. But we didn't talk about that either. So usually I was just like, she's asleep. I just it's Or would you not even ask? Yeah, I'm gonna say it was more of a I'm just not even gonna approach the subject. We're just and if I did, usually it was like, oh, I'm tired. I mean it was the it was the soft shutdown. It wasn't like hard and neat or anything, but it was like, oh, and I'm like, well, it is late, you know, it's midnight or whatever. So I'd acquiesce.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Well, and see, mine was like morning, like I would get up and I'd be like, hey, and you'd be like, no.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

No. Yeah, and that didn't work for me because my sex drive shows up late and your spirit leaves early.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

By public standards, that's acceptable. Yeah. You were the one that was messed up.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

If you have an opinion on that and you would like to drop a comment down below and let us know whether or not you're morning or night, or if I'm wrong, because I I really just feel like night was where the the real seduction belongs.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Yeah, you get romantic at bedtime, and I'm like blurry. I'm like, no, can't even see straight, dude. Leave me alone.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

We were never unavailable. It's the problem is our shops were never opened at the same time. Like I would come to you and you're like, this table is closed.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Yes, the door, the sign is on the door, lights are off.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

And and that was the time that I wanted to connect. And for you, it was kind of the exact opposite because you would try and seduce me in the morning before you went, and I wasn't even close to trying to wake up. I was like, no. And if you know me, like when I'm out, if I'm sleeping, it's it is there is nothing that I want other than to sleep. And this is the same guy that thinks one of the best superpowers you could ever have is to never need sleep.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

Like if if asked.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

How disappointing.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Just want to be productive all the time. See, I wish I could have been awake for you during those times.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

I know.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

Stage two, where we both made it mean too much.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Yeah, we read too much into it.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

Each one of us was reading that instead of uh I'm just tired, I'm more out from life beating me up all day or beating me up all night. Did you life must my life beat me up all day?

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Yeah, I think it beat you up all day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

And then I just didn't have the energy in the morning. I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Yeah, I guess. Well, and mine was, you know, I had I had work and then I had kids, and then you were off doing your work stuff, and so I was still taking the care of the kids, getting them ready for bed, and blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

You know, that you would stay up for maybe maybe a half an hour, an hour before after they went to bed, and then you were done, and then I was like, Oh, house is quiet.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah. So I mean, and that leads to where the tired person feels pressured, right? Because they're like, I just want to go to sleep, but then I have my spouse over there, you know.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

Feeling rejected.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Feeling rejected, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

Because here I have this energy and I have this desire, I'm trying to connect. You know, this is this is when society says it's okay to connect from the rule book that nobody knows where it is and how it exists.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Well, and then if you are on opposite schedules and you're not talking to each other, what are you gonna think? You're your brain's gonna go to that place where, well, okay, well, they don't want me.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

Because we never think the best thoughts. The first thing we always think is we think the most intrusive negative thoughts that we can possibly think. Yeah. And that's what wins the day. Yeah. It's the same thing. One person could leave a negative comment, we could get 10 positive comments, and we will forget everything that the the nine positive comments said and really focus on the one negative comment.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Because that's just the way we're we're built. We're looking, it's our fear-based recognition. Like, oh, there's threat. There's a threat. We have to consider that a threat so it gets all over focus. Yeah. When maybe a threat doesn't even exist.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

So back in those days, what did you think when I turned you down when the timing was off? Did anything go through? I I know for me what I thought, but I'm curious from a man's perspective what you thought.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

Uh mainly that you just didn't want me. Like you just didn't there was nothing desirable about either the act or me.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Either one. I wasn't sure if it was I wasn't sure if it was one, the other, or both, to be very honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

So and I guess I would say the same thing for me.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

So you being an early morning person and me approaching you at night at night, what were you thinking?

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Yeah, I was definitely thinking the same thought. Like, you know, well, I guess he just doesn't want me anymore. Like he doesn't find me sexy, doesn't find me desirable.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

But I would come on to you at night.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yeah, but it's just again, your your brain goes to that place. Hey, baby, like, why are you waiting until now? Why can't you do this when I want to do it?

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Just because night's acceptable. It has so been written. The only appropriate it has so been written and decreed. I can't, I'm telling you, I can't point to where this was, but it's certainly somewhere because that's when everybody finds it acceptable, even though we have songs about afternoon delight.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

But you know, you and I were talking about this actually just a little earlier, that it is there is a nighttime stigma, nighttime's for sex. Like everybody, it seems like everybody thinks that it's because that's when there's no light. Oh, because he can't see. Don't look at me.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

See, and that's where I really screwed up. Really looking back at this and dissecting this, I really screwed up because I should have been taking it in the morning. Yeah. I mean, a lot of times at 5 30 it was probably still dark. But probably if we would have done it more in the morning, you couldn't have turned off the lights. I could have seen more. Did I mess up? Was I the one that was in error?

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

I now see the errors of my way. I should have been meeting her wherever she was.

unknown 12:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

And you're a visual person, so yeah, that would have been convenient for you.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

Would have been very convenient. I did not think this thing through at all.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Where were you on that?

SPEAKER_03 12:59

You're thinking to yourself also, why should a moment that is supposed to be helping us connect be doing the exact opposite, turning this into tension? Why are we turning this moment of beauty into tension just because of time of day? Seems like an opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Definitely, and those opportunities should be uh capitalized on.

SPEAKER_03 13:31

Should be because any time when you're both in the mood should be capitalized on. Like there should be some sneaking off.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Well, yeah, exactly. You know, and that that brings back do you remember when we read that story where the woman had a nanny and her husband came home for lunch, and her and her husband would retreat to their bedroom and have sexy time?

SPEAKER_03 13:54

Yes, on Reddit. Yes, it was on Reddit. So so the gist of the story is is the nanny wrote into Reddit saying that she was being paid well, compensated, loved, loved the person she was working for. But and I think they both worked from home. Or one of them worked from home.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

One of them worked from home, and the nanny was taking care of the kids while she worked. And the husband, I think the husband was.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

She was home during lunch or whatever, and they would retreat to the bedroom, and she's like, I don't know what's going on back there, but I feel like it sucks. And she was she was like, I can't believe that's happening. Yeah, you're a guest in these people's house, and it doesn't matter what time of day it is. If they retreat to the bedroom, they didn't ask you to join them. I don't know what you're doing sneaking down the hallway. This was on Two Hot Takes podcast.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Yes, that's where it was.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

Yeah, I think it was on two hot takes. Credit to them, and and credit to them, but the whole story and the way they viewed that is somebody that sees too many people not trying to find time to connect. I'm like, there was nothing wrong with anything they did. And this this nanny put her nose in the middle of something that didn't involve her in a house where she's a nanny, you're in these people's home. And then the update to that was that she regretted her decision, bringing it up, missed her job, like could not find a job to replace it to pay as much, and that's when you really cut off your nose despite your face. But the moral of the story was these people were just connecting, doing nothing wrong, and this lady was judging them. Yeah, that's what you have a nanny for is to take care of your kids so that you can do these things if you have the money to be able to do that in a nanny. I'd just imagine this house is pretty large. Probably, pretty decent sized house. There's nothing you should be doing to sneak down the hallway and even be near that room. You're the nanny, take care of the kids and mind your own fucking business.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

I was livid on that episode. Yeah, I was just like, Yeah, I was fired up.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Yeah, that's a good point. They were just trying to connect, yeah. And this this person is just judging the crap out of them and later on regrets even saying anything. It was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Either she was fired or she quit.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

Yeah, she was fired because the lady and I would I would have done the same thing. I'm like, you just we didn't make it obvious. You were snooping and trying to get your nose into something that you didn't belong in. And no, but for morning sex, morning sex for me was I wasn't rejecting you, I was just rejecting being awake. Like you were fine. I just I just wasn't I was it was all those non-coffee years. See, I didn't have the coffee, so I wasn't all jacked up.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_03 16:33

If you'd have been, if you should have just shared your secrets with me, we could both could have been drinking coffee, I'd have been getting up early in the morning with you, we could have solved this problem. But see, that's where lies creep in and everything fucking goes wrong.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

You should have snuck to the bathroom with me and made coffee with me.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

I didn't even know you were doing that. Yeah, how do how do I how do I stop something? I don't even know what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

If you would have been more awake in the morning, you would have found out.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Nothing says marriage, like hurt feelings and orthopedic pillows, and that's the stage we were in. Like it's like, oh, did we have all our pillows set up right? We're just gonna get super comfortable so we can watch TV. We're not actually gonna do anything, we're just gonna lay her and be together because that's where we're at in the stage of marriage. Yeah. Luckily for us, we moved on.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Stage three. The timing is so bad, it's almost impressive. One person waits until the other one's like checked out before they even approach the topic.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

What we did is the exact opposite of what we would recommend anybody doing.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

Is we didn't utilize our partners' preferences to help them get their needs met. If either one of us would have compromised and said, you know what, I'll give in today. Next time, hey, just switch off. Like if you guys are, hey, we do it in the morning now, we do it in the night later, find a time to connect. We do it at noon when we're both awake and we can sneak away. I don't know. A lot of people work from home these days, it seems like an option.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Well, and I really think that life was so complicated in other aspects that we didn't communicate with it with each other, our preferences, and we didn't allow each other into that space.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

I waited until you were in full bedtime mode. I didn't try and approach it sooner. Why didn't I try at you know the kids were doing all their kid things. We had time between dinner and eight, nine when they went to bed. There was time. We even had code words for it. It's called doing laundry.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Doing laundry.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

Putting away laundry. You know, or you know, at nine o'clock when I'm like, you know, I'm gonna go to bed, you'd be like, huh, here, let me let me just sneak in there real quick, and then I could have snuck back out because again, the reality is some of those were very quick.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

3090 second love package.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

Giving her 10 minutes. Let's just be gracious and say that I could have given her 10 minutes. And that's the thing, is we're not willing to give our partner even something as small as five or ten minutes. That's really all it would have taken.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Seriously.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

It's not a huge endeavor.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

You know Especially if you're terrible at it.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Well, yeah, because I could have been in there like washing my face or whatever, you know, you come up behind me and put your hands on me, things will change. I'd be like, okay, I can wash my face later.

SPEAKER_03 19:21

So do you remember your bedtime routine at that time? And that was like, I'm gonna if I do this, he better just not even try. Like he better understand that this is going nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

I don't think I was that way, to be honest. I think and unless I was asleep asleep, I could have been wooed.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

So your whole bedtime routine was I'm telling him I'm going to bed, and you were just waiting for me to chase you.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Yeah. I think that's pretty much what it was.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

You know what mine was? What? I'm in bed, now I'm here. Why the fuck doesn't she touch me?

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

That's kind of what I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

Like I'm here finally.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

And a lot of times you were a light sleeper, so you'd wake up and move. It's not like you were still sleeping.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

You could have.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah. I could have easily rolled over and been like, hey.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

We'll talk about that more in stage five. Ooh. That's the current day. But that's just not. And I don't know why we weren't willing to give that teeny tiny bit of effort and compromise.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

So what shut you down at night?

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Fatigue.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

It's kind of the same thing that shut me down in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

But what stopped you from because I remember there was times when I would try.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

Sometimes you would capitulate.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Well, but you you know, when you get to that phase in your rest, you're just comfortable. You're you're in that that comfy, soft spot, warm, cozy, and you just don't want to put forth the effort. You Superman, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Superman, so Superman is when you're like and you're just face down on the bed, stretched out, like you're getting all the cold parts. Like you're really feeling all the cold, cool parts. It's it's my favorite thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

So yours is Superman, mine is fetal position. When I roll over on my left side in fetal position, that's like I'm in my little comp spot.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

That feels like little spoon to me.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Yeah. Now it is.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

It felt a lot like little spoon position. So I mean you can imagine my confusion.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Yeah, weird. Do you remember any huge fights that we used to have?

SPEAKER_03 21:29

No, just the whole thing that we thought about was over not connecting. Like, what is I remember times and you would try to connect with me and I would reject you, and the opposite was true. Like we we rejected each other so much and we had so many fights. And again, it's that we fought for 20 minutes about something that could have been solved in five.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

It's so incredibly silly. If our kids did it, we would yell at them. We'd be like, you Need to grow up. This is not what adulthood looks like.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

So stupid. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

We know better.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

You were tired of your entire day working, taking care of the kids, making dinner. By the time I approached you, you were basically a piece of furniture.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Yeah, I was like a Chase Lounge baby.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

I should have approached you sooner and you could have been bent over a piece of furniture.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

Fucked that up, didn't you?

SPEAKER_03 22:25

This is all about timing. I did not have timing. I have struggled with timing, clearly. Maybe, maybe for my whole entire adult life. Timing's been a struggle. But I I didn't I didn't like that. And I was always looking for more. I just didn't know how to do it. I didn't know I didn't know how to change it because we would fight about it. Not fight, but argue and be like, well, why don't you and we would both state our case pretty clearly and be like, just put in a little bit of effort, and it didn't change anything.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

No. We just had the same thing happen over and over again.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

For me, it's because it wasn't always just about the sex either. It was because I wanted that connection. I was looking for more than just sex.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Stage four. It's not always about sex.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

It's not.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

No, it's not. No. Sometimes that late night person just wants connection. Sometimes you just want to hold each other and you know feel the touch.

SPEAKER_03 23:26

That's a lot of times. That would have been enough. You know, those are the years.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Spoon. Little spoon.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Spoon. Spoon. Well and we can slow down because now it's like we said, for me, the nighttime was my release. It was the time when the day wasn't crushing me with all the responsibility, and I could actually slow down enough to pay attention to you and to be with you.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Well, and you know, for example, if I was totally spent, I probably would have enjoyed you holding me. Like just feeling your body on the warmth on me and the connection. You know, not necessarily having sex, you know, if I was too tired for that, but just that connection. You know, and the thing is, had we been naked and had we been together, things may have developed.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

Do you want to tell them about that rule?

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Yeah, that is one of our rules. Our one of our main rules is to go to bed naked. Absolutely. Um, well, we have two rules go to bed naked, go to bed at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

We we don't go to bed at different times, hardly ever. Uh lately, if I'm staying up late and editing, but it's only because I'm being kind to you. And then usually I come in and we have rules. We have rules.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

But again, we've communicated that and we have an understanding, you know. But for us, going to bed at the same time worked minty because it puts you on the same schedule.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

And so the naked rule was a little bit more than just going to bed naked. It meant that if we were in our bedroom, we shut the door and we connected. We were there. There was no obligation to do anything, it's just we're laying there. It gives us time to soak each other in, really appreciate each other. There's no obligation for anything. It took the obligation away, and the oh my gosh, my partner's naked. I better hurry up and jump on them. Feeling, right? You know, I finally got to look at them for once.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

And so it took all that pressure away, and it just allowed for connection to happen. So we would sit there and watch, you know, Sunday, Saturday, and Sunday mornings. We'd watch TV, YouTube, whatever, I don't remember, but we would stream things and watch things, and the rule was is if we were in there, we had to be naked. And you know, the wild thing is we seem to get our schedules right a lot more. We do when that happened.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Yeah. Well, and it it makes you realize that sometimes people are just exhausted. Sometimes people are just totally done with the day and the world. It doesn't mean that you're rejected, it doesn't mean that I don't love you, it doesn't mean that I have a low libido or a low desire. It just means that this day kicked my ass and I just want to check out. But if you connect, you know, with the naked cuddle time and being together, it just it just makes everything that much better.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

Yeah, I really enjoyed when we started doing that. Yeah, you know, it didn't become just sex, it didn't become a request, it just it became more fluid. You know, it became more of a connection just in general.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

Really looking at you and being able to appreciate you for the first time ever. Because then that's when I started getting the daytime view. You know? I I stopped I I didn't have to have the lights off. I got to see what you looked like in your full beauty. And I enjoyed every bit of that. It was it wasn't about sex, it was about enjoying the partner that I married, the person that I fell in love with. And because I I like to hope and think that I'm the one, if anybody's gonna see your beauty, it's gonna it's gonna be me.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

Nobody else should see beauty that I don't see in you.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

That's true. And that's how I was with you too.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

You know, that's what I wanted in those moments, is that connection, that release, that just to feel like it just helps you feel alive.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

That release is such a dopamine hit and such a just an upper to help people from feeling depressed, and it can really help regulate.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Have you confused me being tired with being uninterested?

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Yeah, I would say. Because it's such a common used excuse. Oh, I'm just too tired. I just I don't have I don't have the energy for you. And for the people saying that, the people that are hearing that on the other side of that, what they're thinking is is she can't or he can't, they can't even give me five or ten minutes to connect at the end of a day where they just gave, you know, eight hours to an employee and four hours to their kids and whatever else, now I can't even get five or ten minutes.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Yeah, and that hurts.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

You know, that's an honesty pill.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

When you're turning your partner down, what you're saying is right now, I don't really have even five or ten minutes to give you.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Yeah, like sometimes I want sex, but sometimes I want proof that you still like me. Like, do you still like me? Do you you know, can you spoon behind me and hold me and like, you know, just yeah, like feel the intimacy.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

Yeah, but your timing in the bedroom felt a lot like Kodak coming out with a better analog camera at the time when digital was about like it was there was nobody wants that. I felt like that was you. Now, I'm sure you could say the opposite to me. Right. Because it was timing had cleaned up.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Yeah, it's like the Betamax that came out, right?

SPEAKER_03 29:04

Yeah, like but a lot of these people are gonna be like, what the fuck is a Betamax?

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Google it. Google it. We had no idea either.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

I'll throw one up on the screen. You can see uh I do remember that one of our friends had a Betamax, and and the only thing I can remember about Betamax is I watched recorded episodes of Magnum PI because she had a huge thing for Tom Selleck. And later on, so did everybody else when he was on Friends.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Yeah, who didn't? He's hot, anyhow. Yeah, totally hot.

SPEAKER_03 29:33

Yeah, yeah. It's uh that's what's like it's like being a Rio when the iPod comes out. You're like, oh fuck, man. We ooh, we got that so wrong.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Yeah, I was way off.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

But guess what? All hope is not lost. This is stage five. The fix is embarrassingly obvious.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

It really is, it really is. So here's one thing that you can do.

SPEAKER_03 30:02

What? What whatever if if you're a morning person and I'm an evening person, sarcasm incoming. Whatever could we do? I just can't quite figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Um, yeah, like maybe you could come to the bedroom just a little bit sooner before I fall asleep and you know, eat the pillow.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

Dude, did we already give this away earlier? We didn't know. I feel like we gave this away. We did.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

And we we hinted at it.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

We did. We said, you know what, you could just the kids are yeah, we did, but that's it. It's it's that much. It's keep it hot all day.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

So you know what we say? What do we say?

SPEAKER_03 30:42

Dude, foreplay foreplay starts the minute you wake up. Yes. There's no time, it's whenever you wake up.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

It's that for us it starts at 6 a.m. because I usually wake up wake up at 6 a.m. But foreplay starts when you wake up.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

It does. And what does that look like for us? So it's the the hand on the back. It's the hey, can I come over and lay on you? Oh, good morning. The good morning kiss. Like the minute we wake up, we're connecting already.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Can I put my hand on your junk?

SPEAKER_03 31:10

My junk? Your junk. It's outside in the yard.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Not that kind of junk. The other kind of junk.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

The junk?

SPEAKER_00 31:17

The junk.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

And the answer is always yes. Always yes. Always yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

Implied consent. We have also by Wait, wait, I just said something that's gonna trigger some people. I just said implied consent.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Implied consent. Oh, jeez.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

Implied consent.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

So that is gonna trigger some people.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

It's it's implied because we have a contract.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

We have a contract.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

It's kind of like I shouldn't have to tell you I love you all the time, although I do. I do.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

He does.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

But I shouldn't have to tell you because we signed a contract and it's basically until further notice.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

But see, and what I was going to say is that by us having like the naked rule, right? You almost desexualize it a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

You do.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Because you're used to it. So it's not a, you know, like you said, it's not like, oh, she's naked. I'm gonna pounce on her now. It's like, oh she's naked, I can enjoy her beauty, or I I, you know, an eye google over you because of your nakedness. You know, so by me putting my hand on your private parts, it doesn't mean a signal.

SPEAKER_03 32:17

Yes. And it's more of a it's a more of a connection. Yeah, it's more of a connection.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

It is.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

It's the hand on your butt, it's the it's you at the kitchen sink, it's coming up behind you and kissing your neck and just grabbing you and cupping you and doing whatever. It's all that stuff kissing, flirting. Come over here and kiss me before you leave the house. You know, you're the first thing I see when I get back to the house. I'm looking for you. It's making those connections all day long.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 32:45

The first person, you know, I we married our best friend. We should be looking for more ways to have those connections. So foreplay starts the minute you wake up and it doesn't stop until you go to sleep.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

That's pretty much our our deal. And we started to learn each other's patterns, you know. But also, rule number two says we don't do things separately now. If you're gonna get up early, I'm gonna get up early so that I'm tired at the same time, and then I go to bed at the same time. Now there are people, obviously, there's nuance to all these things. Sometimes we make blanket statements because it's good for 80% of people, they're not always good for everybody, but there's people that work shift work and things like that. But their morning is your night.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Yeah, so learn your partner's patterns.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

Finding those opportunities and those times for those connections, however, it looks like for you in your relationship.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Well, romance works better than rigor mortise.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Dude, nobody, well, I can't say nobody. We'll leave that joke for another time. So let's talk about date night because it kind of started with date night. It's that's where it starts setting in, that everything is reserved for the evening. And so when you go on a date, that's where you end up with the fuck first rule, right? We've talked about it a couple times, but if you're gonna go out on a date and you're gonna spend all that time, you don't know what the evening brings, you don't know if the kids are gonna call and tell you that the house is on fire.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

You don't know if the Chinese food is gonna leave you bloated and uncomfortable, and you really just don't want to move after that.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

You can drink too much, have too good at a time, and then all of a sudden you have performance issues. Nobody, that's never the best. It's never the best encounter you're ever gonna have.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Like, you know, you're getting ready to go on your date, you know, bend her over the kitchen counter.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

Before you go.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Okay. Maybe not kitchen.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

Can we be less graphic? So, what you're saying in a nice polite way is that if you're getting ready to go on the date and make a move. Something catches your eye, and you can imagine somebody positioned nicely over that piece of furniture, then maybe do that first.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

What I'm saying is make make a move while you have an opportunity before you go on your date.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

That seems wise.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Right, to make a move.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

So, what we're saying is work with reality instead of this fantasy that you've built that everybody needs to capitulate to your needs.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Work to meet in the middle and meet each other's needs. There's all kinds of time. You're sitting here watching this video. Maybe you could be watching this video with your partner and discussing some of the things we're talking about because we talk about the hard things that are tough to bring up.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Yes. Realistically, like you said, it's only maybe 10 minutes of your time. Um, if your husband stays up late and you go to bed early, stay up a little extra. Go in there, give him the 10 minutes, and get the at give him the attention that he needs. And the same can go for him. You know, if you're an early bird, set your alarm, wake up a little bit sooner.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Because the solution may be less mystery and a lot more common sense when you really stop and think about it. Talk to your partner. Again, if you're watching this with them, talk to him about it. This is how dialogue happens. When you listen to podcasts, you watch YouTube videos about relationship stuff. If you can share that with them, it helps both you and it helps us. We're helping each other.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

So if you get some value out of this, make sure to share this with your spouse because it can help bring up tough conversations that you're just not ready to have in person necessarily. I share videos of tough conversations with just helps get that. Breaks the ice.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Yeah, helps get that conversation triggered.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

It's what this entire podcast is about.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Because a lot of what feels like rejection is really just exhaustion.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

And a lot of what feels like pressure.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Is one person showing up way too late and acting confused?

SPEAKER_03 36:45

This doesn't always mean something's broken.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Sometimes it just means one of you is trying to start the party when the other one has already zipped themselves into a sleep cocoon.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

So maybe the question isn't do we want each other?

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Maybe it's why do we keep trying this when one of us is basically already gone?

SPEAKER_03 37:01

Because a lot of marriage tension is just two people who still love each other, still want each other, and somehow keep missing each other because they can't coordinate a calendar.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Which honestly feels like the most married thing ever.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

Because bad timing in a marriage doesn't feel dramatic at first.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

No, it feels stupid.

SPEAKER_03 37:18

Like one person's clearly been shutting down for the last 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

And the other one still thinks this is the perfect time to roll over and get ambitious.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Then when it fails, which of course it does, now somebody feels rejected.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

And somebody feels hunted.

SPEAKER_03 37:34

And bedtime somehow turns into a full emotional crime scene.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Because one of you is like, I'm trying to connect with my spouse.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

And the other one's like, I have on chapstick, magnesium, a retainer, and one eye's already gone. Read the room.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

That's what makes this so relatable. Nothing huge is wrong.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

There's no cheating, there's no massive crisis, just bad timing and bruised egos. And the person making the move always acts a little shocked, like this came out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Sir, I've been descending to sleep in phases. There were warning signs.

SPEAKER_03 38:05

This is how couples take something small and turn it into something way bigger.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Because now it's not just bad timing, now it's rejection, pressure, insecurity, and weird energy for the next two days.

SPEAKER_03 38:17

When the truth is usually way less dramatic.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

And a lot of you don't have a sex problem, you have a timing problem, and a complete disregard for business hours.